Tithing Treasures, Time and Talents You Ignorant, Lying Thief...
Based on a Post about a short, little, inspirational video, https://youtu.be/FA4Ce1qOSXw.
***If you don't read this, that's OK, I typically don't read LOOOONG posts either... they can get to be a bit tedious... I understand. IF you do read this, thanks for taking your time to read it, comment on it if you feel the need to, and understand, initially, my original post, had nothing to do with this post, but it came together for some reason... if you would like more info about this topic, I will be happy to provide some Theological, Scholarly Articles and Commentaries which support a more contextual position. Tradition is not Truth...
The Other Day...
The other day I posted this random little video w/ a "short commentary...."A friend of mine stated, as follows: "Thanks for your tithing post. I was so irritated after the visiting pastor's sermon on Sunday I would not go back and hear him on Wednesday. Never mind the hundreds of hours both ______ and I have volunteered to that church over the past _______years. It's all worthless because I don't give 10 percent. I am ignorant and a thief, and get called as much in front of my children.I guess I should go back to work so that we can be more financially secure and ________should stop serving so that we can dedicate more time to make more money. They'll be out a ___________, a helper, at one point a _________________, someone who advances Christ in the community with young children. But hey, at least they'll get paid.Oh yeah. According to the guy they brought in on Sunday, if you don't tithe, you're ignorant and a thief. And if you argue from the new testament that tithing is done away with you're a theological legalist and bound to give the 100 percent the Bible requires.I have a good, very Biblically literate friend who set out to prove me wrong on tithing. She discovered SHE was wrong and has been very discouraged by the vehemence with which she was attacked when she would even ask questions in the course of her study.It was a sermon about how to follow Jesus and talked about things that Christians should be doing. And of course he said there were too many things to mention... and it had three points but of course it just so happened that he spent much of his time, energy and sharp words on tithing. _________was not there, he was home with ________, who was sick. I don't think either of us would stop serving over something like that. But i do think their fervor to guilt people is fueled by their financial missteps. You know me, I don't mind quietly disagreeing, but i don't appreciate being called a thief and undermined in front of my children when we are donating 5-7 percent of our income and have literally donated hundreds, if not thousands, of hours in service and literal talents."**My friend who wrote this to me was referencing what I had written which I will include below.... incredibly, I was preaching at another Church that day, and I had not even heard the visiting pastor's sermon... so, my commentary wasn't even directed toward this message. I have listened to this message since then, and frankly, it is upsetting. You can listen to it yourself if you would like here: http://bellshoals.com/sermon/real-christianity/
--My friend shared that the man stated that people are ignorant and thieves, but I believe he called them liars as well... I listened again, and yes, he calls them, liars and thieves...
"AMAN... GOD BLESS YA.... " "IF YOU'RE A CHRISTIAN... YOU'RE GONNA BE STUCK WITH HIM FOR ETERNITY..." "DO YOU LOVE EACH OTHER..." "WE GET MAD OVER THE LEAST, LITTLE, INSIGNIFICANT, NON-ETERNAL THINGS..." "PASTOR, I'M DOING SO GOOD, I'M TITHING 7%... EXCUSE ME, 7%... YOU'RE NOT ONLY A THIEF, YOU'RE A LIAR!" "YOU'RE NOT TITHING... TITHING MEANS 10%!" "YOU CAN'T GIVE AN OFFERING UNTIL YOU GIVE YOUR TITHE..." "YOU GIVE TO THE TV PREACHER... WELL, CALL HIM WHEN YOUR DEAD, OR IN THE HOSPITAL..."
**These little quips/quotes were to make light of his speech, and make light of the berating attack on believers/followers of Christ to make his message seem more friendly and humorous, but to those that are not IGNORANT to his verbiage, it was a further scathing attack on those that don't give like the traditionalist has been taught. They are a divisive measure to lighten the message, manipulate the audience into thinking it's somewhat funny that he's making fun of the non-10%'ers, and the sad thing is, most people believe him, and many of those laughing are the vast majority of that group he's making fun of...
**These little quips/quotes were to make light of his speech, and make light of the berating attack on believers/followers of Christ to make his message seem more friendly and humorous, but to those that are not IGNORANT to his verbiage, it was a further scathing attack on those that don't give like the traditionalist has been taught. They are a divisive measure to lighten the message, manipulate the audience into thinking it's somewhat funny that he's making fun of the non-10%'ers, and the sad thing is, most people believe him, and many of those laughing are the vast majority of that group he's making fun of...
That's right Reverend "R", "Tithe" means 10%, and YES, I know how to spell it.... but you only know what you've been told "Dr..." which not only makes you a traditionalist... it makes you a liar if you don't know and teach the truth! You're daddy taught you what tithing means, you taught your boys what tithing means... and you learned it, NOT by the study of the system of tithing, but by your own and others leading of tradition....
He also referenced that famous tithing passage, Malachi 3, which states, 8 Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, ‘How have we robbed you?’ In your tithes and contributions. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you. 10 Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. 11 I will rebuke the devourer [b] for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil, and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the Lord of hosts. 12 Then all nations will call you blessed, for you will be a land of delight, says the Lord of hosts."
Further, most people do not even know that these passages were written by Malachi to the Priests...
I followed up with this post, because, well, it annoyed me... yeah, I suppose the Church does get quite annoyed at little, insignificant things... things that crawl under our skin and fester... maybe because we forgot the point of needing to take care of the weightier matter of things... Yeah, well, Roc was right... he was going to preach and be gone again... he's got his cushy position up in TN, and it's got to be good, and I'm certain I'm not going to make any new friends or have any hope of increasing my odds of being called on to speak like he gets to speak... That's OK, I'm accepting my calling... a thorn in the side of our faith, and a thorn in my own side as well... I'm not going to fight it any longer... I appreciate the ministry God is giving me. I'm glad to be able to be part of something bigger than me... bigger than Roc, bigger than all the Church buildings combined in all of human history. I am glad that I am a man that is willing to speak out (at times) against things that sometimes aren't "exactly accurate..." FOR the RECORD... I know already that I am not "exactly accurate" either... and that's a lot of the time. I hope I'm like that tax collector bowing before the Lord, not even being willing to look up to the Lord saying, "Lord, please forgive me... a sinner." Instead of being like the Pharisee with his chest puffed up, his head held high, his voice elevated to the sky, saying, "Lord, I'm glad I am a tither and not like that Tax Collector." Going back to being annoyed... I was annoyed that my friends were hurt by the message, and I know they weren't the only ones, I am annoyed that men place a yoke of burden on the shoulders of believers based on tradition and not actual truthful instruction. It's interesting the path that this message went in a few different directions, and it ended on a legalistic, traditional view point, not scriptural instruction. The only Scripture "referenced" was Malachi 3:10... and that passage is NOT the FINAL authority on giving, but it is quite often treated as such and typically done manipulatively to guilt people into believing they are "thieves, liars and ignorant..."
Reverend "R", you've got a lot of people loving your message, a lot of good laughs, even some that re-quoted you from Wednesday night which was a nice little quote... The Bible is the only Book, when opened, the Author shows up... as many were impressed with, and true... It's a good word... You were wrong however... I doubt you'll ever actually research the topic of OT Tithing, and you are right about giving it all in the NT, and your statement about bringing up house keys and car keys is pretty spot on too, but why don't we go back to the Book of Acts and actually start looking at the humble beginnings of the early Church... which had nothing to do with Mega-Multi-Campus-Business-Corporate Structures... ahem, in short, the Temple System... And brother, in all love and respect, the moment you started telling the Congregation to bring up their car keys and house keys, yours, sir, should have been the first one's laid on the steps... oh wait, they should be laid on the steps at your Church, because it would be inappropriate to give to another ministry that quite possibly, God might be telling someone to give to someone in need... But, we wouldn't want to really honor an Acts type Church giving and coming together as one... which really hasn't happened since, well the time of Acts.
86,400
Very Inspiring Short Video... As "SBC" people, we love to use terms like, we should be "tithing" our time, our talent and our treasures... this is a very nice way of saying (and manipulating) people into giving a "tenth" of all they earn to the Church... respectfully, if you are doing that and more, God Bless You! But those proponents, a good majority (which means MOST), who are trying to get people to give a "tithe" and try to "dumb it down" by saying our talent and time as well, never live up to this calling which they adhere... this young man gives a perfect example of what needs to be done with the time we are given... He says, 86,400 is the "magic" number... only a tenth of that would be 8,640, which would equate to 2 hours, 40 minutes. If we are so adamant about giving of our treasures, and when we say we should be including of our talents and time in that, are they giving 2 hours, 40 minutes, "religiously?" Are you giving of your talents in the same manner? What is your talent? Do you even know what it is? Are you investing at minimum 10% of it if you are so dedicated to the tithe of your treasures?
BTW, which means, (By The Way), if you were to actually do some research on the context of tithing, you might find out quickly that that tenth that you hold to, is not even nearly meeting the requirements in the scriptures... that giving that you have been traditionally taught, so you can meet the "standard" by which others have taught, ingrained into you, is far from meeting what you are really supposed to be giving... this man, Elvis, (you got to love that name), shares what Jesus was talking about to the Pharisees as He said to them, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." Matthew 23:23...
Maybe, just maybe, if the Church were to teach what it means to actually be giving biblically, the "Script would get flipped" and 10% of the Church wouldn't be supporting the Church, but maybe, just maybe, if the Church wouldn't put a "yoke of burden" on the people, they would be giving from their heart as the Bible dictates... in time, talent and possibly in their treasures... That's my 2 Cents.... hmmm.. who's face is engraved on these coins....
BTW, which means, (By The Way), if you were to actually do some research on the context of tithing, you might find out quickly that that tenth that you hold to, is not even nearly meeting the requirements in the scriptures... that giving that you have been traditionally taught, so you can meet the "standard" by which others have taught, ingrained into you, is far from meeting what you are really supposed to be giving... this man, Elvis, (you got to love that name), shares what Jesus was talking about to the Pharisees as He said to them, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin, but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." Matthew 23:23...
Maybe, just maybe, if the Church were to teach what it means to actually be giving biblically, the "Script would get flipped" and 10% of the Church wouldn't be supporting the Church, but maybe, just maybe, if the Church wouldn't put a "yoke of burden" on the people, they would be giving from their heart as the Bible dictates... in time, talent and possibly in their treasures... That's my 2 Cents.... hmmm.. who's face is engraved on these coins....
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